A highly sensitive woman’s new perspective on mental illness

Update on My Benzo Taper

Posted by: HSP Woman on: May 3, 2007

Dr. Heather Ashton – Benzodiazepine Withdrawal

Dr. Heather Ashton is my hero.

She has been researching the negative effects of chronic benzodiazepine use for over 25 years. I so admire women who are ahead of their time. Women who fight for what’s right and readily put their reputations on the line for a worthy cause.

Today, most doctors are still blind to the seriousness of withdrawing from benzos too quickly. Just last week, I went to my internist with an update on my tapering. I came into her office prepared, ready to share with her the next few months of my withdrawal schedule using the water titration method. The schedule itself looks wonderful, I might add. It’s all laid out in a nice Excel spreadsheet, courtesy of the Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Support Group.

My doctor looked at me and rolled her eyes mumbling something about how she just knew I’d bring in something to show her (like it’s bad for a patient to be informed?). She’s convinced my Valium taper is unnecessarily slow, but I’ve had many doctors tell me the same thing. When I started the initial taper with her back in September 2006, she only half-heartedly agreed to do the crossover to the longer half-life Valium from the very short half-life Xanax. Well, at least she agreed to the crossover. I’ve read horror stories about many, many doctors who think the crossover is ridiculous.

Ignorance runs rampant among doctors when it comes to benzodiazepine use. If they’d only take a couple of hours and read the Ashton Manual. They could do it at home, in private where no one would see them deviating from the “gold standard.” Where no one would see them appearing to perhaps doubt themselves and their omnipotence by actually reading someone else’s work.

I seriously wonder how many doctors even read scientific journals. I worked in a neuroscience lab for years. We would often grimace at the number of MDs who were completely unaware of real science. Well, granted some doctors may take time to read a few abstracts of interesting papers. But, from my experience, I still think very few doctors are really up-to-date on the latest research. How many doctors get their information from drug reps? From medical conferences sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry?

Please, don’t get me wrong. I think doctors are great (mostly) at the gross medical problems, the large problems. I think that most doctors just lack finesse in the more subtle areas of health, like in mental health for example. I believe certain conditions are just too complicated (for lack of a better word) for most doctors. It’s true, finding real cleverness and unique insight is probably difficult in most professions. However, I have this bias that more doctors than not should show signs of intelligence and outside-the-box thinking skills.

Okay, rant over….

So, how’s my water titration off of Valium working for me? Pretty well I must admit. This is what I do each day:

I wake up and head to the kitchen. There I set up my little chemistry laboratory. I have something like a graduated cylinder, a hand blender, a little cup, two glasses, a 10 ml syringe, and a pestle. I first measure 50 ml of water. Next, I grind up a 2.0 mg Valium tablet in the little cup. I add the powder into the cylinder and rinse out the cup with some of my 50 ml of water. I blend for 20 seconds. Then, depending on the day, I remove a particular amount of drug water with the syringe and it toss in down the sink. Yeah! Finally, I drink the Valium water, trying not to taste its bitterness. I find it really helps if I eat a piece of toast before drinking the drug water. Without a little food I tend to get slightly nauseated.

Each day I make about a 2.0% drop in amount of Valium I ingest each morning. I still take my 2.0 mg Valium tablet at night by mouth, no mashing and mixing needed (yet). This morning was my 7th day using the water tapering method, and I have made a cumulative drop from 4.0 mg Valium total per day to an incredible 3.520 mg dose daily.

The first two days were frustrating; I complained a lot. I felt really irritable and grumpy. I feel a little less moody today.

Also, my dreams have become vivid and frightening again. And, still, I find myself at times really searching for the right word. I’m not worried though. The nightmares and aphasia are temporary according to the stories of other people who have withdrawn from benzos. I feel confident I can hang in there…

Also, I have a suspicion that drinking the morning dose affects me more than just swallowing the entire pill. I have no research to back this up, but I swear I feel more “drugged” after drinking the Valium drug water. It’s like a more sudden high. It’s funny because I used to love this feeling — now, well not so much. The tuning out, floating with a bit of dizziness, makes me feel uncomfortable.

I’d rather not feel this, but the alternative is too horrific. I tapered off of Klonopin by dry cutting the pills. I suffered so much. I had dozens of adverse reactions, like walls moving and my legs buckling out from under me. Then, of course, I had the experience of one of those detox units Dr. Ashton describes in her video clip. Cold turkey off of Xanax, Klonopin, and Effexor…. I wish I could just let go of my rage. How dare those doctors admit me to their detox center when there was already clear scientific evidence that doing so could jeopardize my life.

One more thing: I totally had to switch to decaf coffee in the morning. The first days, I was still on espresso. Here’s some good information:

Caffeine (mg):

• Diet Coke: 45.6
• Sunkist Orange: 40.0
• Diet Pepsi: 36.0
• espresso (2.0 oz): 100.0
• drip coffee (8.0 oz): 115.0-175.0
• decafe coffee: 3.0-4.0
• Red Bull (8.2 oz): 80.0 (oh my!)

Up until around 5 days ago, I was having about 6 oz of espresso and 1-2 Diet Cokes per day. That’s just under 400 mg of caffeine a day! For some people, that amount of caffeine wouldn’t make a dent in their lives. In the life of someone withdrawing from benzodiazepines, like me, this amount of caffeine was enough to give me the “anxious chest” I mentioned in previous post. This chest tightness, in turn, leads to panicky feelings. I came to the conclusion pretty quickly that encouraging panic was probably not in my best interest at this time!

So, recently I have managed to have my decaf in the morning and one Diet Coke at lunch. I’ve found that this single soda is enough to keep the caffeine withdrawal headaches at bay. Yet, at the same time, the racing heart and tight chest is MUCH BETTER. I am happy not to be so dependent on coffee anymore. I’d like to give it up completely and switch to tea. Also, I went for ages without drinking soda and I felt so much better. But, again, one demon at a time…

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20 Responses to "Update on My Benzo Taper"

me, i have yet to find a doctor i like. actually, the psychiatrist i had in L.A. was great, but then again he’s trained as a psychoanalyst. anyway, this shocks me:

She’s convinced my Valium taper is unnecessarily slow.

huh? where does this conviction come from, exactly? and how does she measure “necessity?” finally, what’s it to her???? she‘s not getting off the benzos, is she? why does she care how slow you are doing it?

rock on.

Hi AMA, :smile:

About her convictions…. She also told me I don’t need a screening mammogram until age 50! And, when I talked to her about my PMDD, she refused to check my hormone levels but, rather, insisted upon giving me a prescription for Zoloft.

I agree — very, very frightening. Needless to say, she’s not going to see me again!

I went off Paxil a year ago and did it much slower than what they require. I told them how medicine sensitive I am and how when I got off of Celexa years ago, I had major side effects.
Even going slow SLOW slow off the Paxil, I still had major withdrawals, I felt like I was dying. I was even stuck in bed.
They told me it wasn’t the meds because I went off of them SO slow and it was going on for so long.
Of course, they didn’t have anything else it could be, I wasn’t sick.

WOW! on the mammogram at 50. We don’t even have any family history of anything, but they have told me it is now a good idea to have it done by 35.

Hi there, Stef!
Oh, I hear you on the SSRI withdrawal! I have withdrawn off every single one of them at one time or another WAY too fast, like you. I wish all doctors would just learn the TRUTH about psychotropic medication. It’s so sad, and so many suffer.

I heard about the 35 year mammogram from my DAD of all people. He had read it somewhere and told me to get on the ball. My own doctor recommends 50! Sheez.

By the way, Dr. Vliet also recommends 35. It sounds like you have a great doctor!

You are one smart, brave woman.

Hi again Lunarrose! Nice to hear from you again.

In truth, I think it is you who is brave. I admire your blog and read it regularly!

Just blew in from BlogHer, where I’m new myself. I’m a recovering alcoholic and drug addict (benzos for about…hmm…5 years? and many other things before that) and I just want to say that this blog looks wonderful. How great to have a place to talk about what really happens in withdrawal as opposed to what the doctors think “should” be happening.

Best of luck to you with your withdrawal — from what I can discern, you are not speaking of “addiction” so much as “dependence” here — such an important (and perhaps under-reported?) group of people affected by drug use.

I’ll be back, and thanks!

Hi Vampire Slayer,

Thanks for the support! It’s so hard. I feel challenged to my very core these days. Dependence or addiction? One still suffers unless the drug’s on board. Even though with benzos we are physically dependent on the next dose, we are also psychologically addicted to the instant relief it brings. I’m finding both the pure physical withdrawal and the emotional attachment to the drug equally challenging to survive. No wonder I tried to stop so many times unsuccessfully.

A big hug and congratulations on your recovery, too. Thanks again.

“Dr. Heather Ashton is my hero.”

Heroes should be selected with great care. IME, many are found to have feet of clay.

Your’s certainly does. I draw your attention to Ashton’s testimony in the notorious Koupparis trial. In particular compare the doses for various antidepressants she testifies are at or near the maximum ith their respective actual maximum. In most cases her “maximum” is much less than usually prescribed dose, and a quarter of the recommended maximums without medical supervision.

And she wasn’t making mistakes under pressure, she says much the same in the Defence Medical Report she prepared before the trial.

BTW- isn’t it curious that in all her published studies and books, Ashton never mentions having treated an epileptic for “prolonged benzodiazepine withdrawal” given that the doses used for that condition are often huge compared to those prescribed for anxiety disorders. 10mg/day Klonopin is about typical, twice that not unusual.

Thank you, Ian, for your opinion.

Dr. Ashton’s work is what helped me get off the equivalent of 120 mg of Valium without losing my mind completely.

No other doctor believed me when I said “I think it’s the benzodiazepines…” She did.

The slow taper is what saves many peoples’ lives. And that is why I admire her so much.

That is why she is still my hero.

I appreciate your comment and for the insight. Can I assume psychotropic meds are working for your anxiety and depression? Do you also have epilepsy?

I am glad that you have found relief with psychotropic medications.

I did not, but we are each unique.

Thanks again for stopping by!

I am trying to come off of Lorazepam after five years of use. I had no problem tapering down from 3mg per day to 1mg per day, but when I went from 1 mg to .5mg, I thought I was going to die! Anxiety returned and slapped me in the face a few times a day, along with major withdrawal symptoms. I am lucky that I have a great doc who is helping me through this; he does not think anyone should suffer when coming off of medication so we are rethinking our tapering schedule. Had I known it would be this hard, I would have really thought twice about getting on this medication in the first place. Although I do not wish for anyone else to be suffering, I am glad to know that other people have made it through benzo tapering and are now well! I hope I make it through it.

Hi there, Wendy.

That’s usually the case with benzo tapering — the last few milligrams are the most difficult to withdraw from. I have empathy for you.
I am still holding steady at 2.0 mg of Valium. I have been stabilizing for three weeks which is about a week too long. I am not looking forward to starting the water taper for these final mgs. But, I am really looking forward to seeing how I feel when I am finally off of benzodiazepines and through with the withdrawal.

People say it takes 6-18 months after your final dose to really start feeling well again. Then, there are people who still suffer from protracted withdrawal symptoms for years after their last dose.

I really hope I am fortunate enough to feel well. I hope you are too. Hang tough. You are doing a great job. With support like this from one another, I believe it’s possible to kick this crappy drug to the curb once and for all!

Really nice to hear from you!

I am presently tapering off 15 mg of Valium and am down to 11. It has taken me several months because my doctor and I found I can only taper 1 mg every two or three weeks and still I get only two hours of sleep a night (he is trying other meds for that); wants to put me on SSRI which I am resistant to;
and I was prescribed this for a medical condition which the taper is adversely affecting ! I wish I had known about these drugs before being prescribed them. I have so much sleeplessness, anxiety, jitteryness, inability to concentrate at work, then I will get sleepy for no reason in the daytime, have obsessive thoughts about one thing and experience very little joy. BUT – only three more months and Valium will not be around ! I then have two other meds to taper but nothing could be as terrible as this Valium taper. DON’t EVER TAKE IT !

Welcome, Lauren :grin:

A big congratulations on getting to 11.0 mg of Valium! Nice going! I know it’s sooo hard. I have been there. One milligram every three weeks sounds like a good taper speed. Are you doing a water taper? It’s wonderful for going down very, very, very slowly. Much fewer withdrawal side effects this way.

Check out the Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Support link in the sidebar under “Links.” On this site you can get tons of good information about water tapering.

Before you get on an SSRI, remember that so many people have a lot of trauma getting off these, too. It’s a decision of cost:benefit when getting on any psychotropic medication, as I can read you already know.

All of your symptoms are very common for many people during benzo withdrawal. You will sleep again, I promise! I’ve been completely benzo free for 15 days now, and I am sleeping pretty well! Imagine yourself going to bed without having to take a pill! It’s a very wonderful feeling!

To get off of the rest of your 11 mg of Valium allow yourself a lot of time. Three months is maybe too fast?

Take a short break when your symptoms flare. Stabilize, and then start tapering again.

The joy comes back like never before. This has been my experience and I am thrilled.

Keep me posted on your progress. I wish you the very best.

Just remember, it does get better. Stick with the taper, and big rewards will be waiting for you!

What is this water tapering system you speak of? I am currently tapering with klonopin (very quickly i might add, a one month process). But I haven’t heard of the water tapering system. Please explain or email me directly at chelseyellis27@gmail.com

Welcome, Chelsey :smile:

Please check out this Yahoo group:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/benzo

Everything there is to know about doing a slow water taper is there (and more!).

I highly recommend that you join this community, even if you decide not to do the slower water taper.

Basically, a water taper means you dissolve a Klonopin tablet (or any other benzodiazepine) in water and drink only a portion of it. This means you can make smaller decreases than just dry cutting the pill.

That means fewer negative side effects from the withdrawal of this medication.

It was the ONLY way I managed to get off the benzos for good (after 18 years of use!).

Today, I am about three months benzo free! I feel great!

The group is wonderful. Lots of knowledge and support.

Hi Again,

PV Slayer here. Hey I was just rereading your blog and damn this is good stuff. May I link to you on my blog? Let me know if it’s okay, and thanks!

practicalslayer@yahoo.com

I have been on benzos for 25 years and until just recently, no doctor told me of the long-term chronic effects! I have forgotten what it is like to feel well and to feel like myself.

I am determined to get off my valium now. I take 5 mg, 2 in the morning and 3 in the evening. I plan to reduce by 10 % every 4 weeks.

Please give me your advice on how longit will take.

Thank you.

Need some guidance. Have been on Valium, 5 mg, thrice daily, for 6 weeks. During last 8 days, have managed to reduce first two doses per day by 1/2 to 2.5 mg, giving me a total dose per day of 10 mg, down from 15. Given the brevity of my usage of this drug, am I being overly cautious? Next step scheduled is for tomorrow pm’s dose to be halved. Any helpful feedback welcome.

Thank you in advance.

i cold turkeyd of klonopin and a slew of other. A YEAR and a half ago. You said you saw walls move?? derealization most likely. very common with klonopin. i myself am struggling with dissociation. STILL. keep with it. life is worth living drug free.

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